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Titel: Life draining out of my kanotix
 Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 06:47 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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At around the start of the year I installed kanotix-2005-04 and one of the many things I was impressed with was the general speed of the desktop and everything.
Well after the first 6 weeks or so I noticed things were becoming a bit sluggish and it gradually slowed down more and more.
So I did a clean install of easter-2006 and noticed a huge difference but a couple of months down the line it is becoming frustratingly sluggish again.
I don't know if it's due to the nature of Debian sid and things being upgraded and changed a lot but at this rate it seems I'm going to have to do clean installs every 2 to 3 months.
Having said that, I installed suse 10.1 around the same time as easter-2006 and have lots of repos so things are also upgraded frequently but suse is running just as snappy as the day it was installed.
According to rcconf I have hardly any running services, just the following -
eciadsl
alsa-utils
bluetooth
cupsys
dbus
kdm
makedev
I've tried stopping cupsys and bluetooth but it makes no difference.
Anyone know what the problem might be?
I'm can almost hear the computer let out a sigh every time I select kanotix from grub. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel: RE: Life draining out of my kanotix
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 10:09 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 1905
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apt-get clean
fix-fonts -e
check "df -h" for full partitions. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 12:04 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
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Wohnort: England
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Done those but no difference.
I really can't see any particular reason for it all.
For example, when I first booted up today, I let the desktop load up and settle and then ran htop with nothing else running.
CPU was hovering between 2% and 5% memory was 64/512 and nothing seemed to be doing anything but then I launched konsole and it took a couple of seconds for the window to appear but a further 6 or 7 seconds for actual prompt to appear.
I then ran Thunderbird and the window appeared after a few seconds but the whole interface built up bit by bit until it finally fully appeared about 20 seconds later and it's the same with konqueror and most other apps.
I've been trying more simple themes and icons to see if that could be a cause but it still makes no difference.
I'm using 2 hard drives and have 2 distros on each at the moment and have no sluggishness issues with ubuntu, slackware or suse.
After I had this problem with the older kanotix I made a point of installing easter on the other hard drive and put suse 10.1 on the partition kanotix had been on so I don't believe there are any disk drive problems. |
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sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 17:08 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 102
Wohnort: Würzburg
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| Are you using any kde eyecandy, such as kbfx or taskbar v2? I notice similar problems when I use kbfx > 0.4.8rc2, to the point of embarrassment when I'm trying to show Linux off, because it slows me down so much. (I downgraded and it's fine) Taskbar v2 also slows things down for me a bit, but not to the point that it bothers me. I don't know if there are actual problems with these progs, or if its just my configuration. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 20:29 Uhr
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Team Member
Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
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Wohnort: Ganymede
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Zitat:
Done those but no difference.
Well the df -h command does not do anything except report disc space usage. What is the output?
Run a system process monitor like htop (in a shell) to see what's using your system resources. |
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Ubuntu - An ancient African word for "Can't install Debian"
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 23:41 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
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Wohnort: England
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@ nemesis
I have no extra eyecandy at all at the moment, I was using xcompmgr/kompmgr at first but had to stop using it altogether because kanotix became completely unusable (though it is heading that way anyway).
I have xcompmgr and taskbar 2 running on suse with no graphics card and everything is running much, much quicker than kanotix is without any eyecandy.
I'm also running gnome which is proving slightly quicker than kde but still very sluggish.
@ mzilikazi
I'm unable to access kanotix at the moment but all my distros are on small partitions, the kanotix partition is larger than the other partitions and also has more free space than the others so I don't think that's the cause.
Last time I checked htop I had firefox, synaptic and konsole running, overall cpu jumped to 90 something percent when synaptic was upgrading but never went above 76 any other time and memory usage peaked at 115/512. No single processes seem to be using that much cpu.
All this time just something like minimizing and restoring windows was taking an age and right-clicking on a file was taking several seconds for the context menu to appear. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 23:49 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 20. Okt 2005
Beiträge: 278
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shame,
I have the same problem, but probably not as bad as you describe. It's been getting slower and slower as time progresses.
I believe that, in my case, it is because of fragmentation.
See this thread:
http://kanotix.com/index.php?name=PNphp ... highlight=
Could you report the fragmentation that you get after running the script?
My fragmentation right now is worse than what I reported in that thread.
-Crust |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 07.07.2006, 23:58 Uhr
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Team Member
Anmeldung: 03. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 1544
Wohnort: out there somewhere
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| Something is wrong somewhere, or misconfigured somewhere, my AMD 350mhz with 256mb of ram is "not" that slow and sluggish as you describe or cpu hungry, could be another reason the "update gui" is not working right for you either |
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h2's d-u script
h2's rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 08.07.2006, 00:34 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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When I had this problem with the previous version I remember that thread but fragmentation wasn't bad at all at the time but after reading of the problem I went with ext3 when I installed easter edition.
I tried it again on kanotix earlier (ran it on / )and got this -
Code:
3.16258318094559% non contiguous files, 1.13052484615793 average fragments.
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sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 08.07.2006, 19:20 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 08.07.2006, 22:48 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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No, I have gnome-settings-daemon running so gnome apps look right and I first thought this might have been the cause of my problems but stopping it makes no difference.
I have used gtk2-engines-gtk-qt fairly recently and again it made no difference to anything.
It's really getting frustrating not being able to find anything that might be causing it.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far though.
Quite some time ago I had terrible slowdown problems with ubuntu and that seemed to be caused by wrong monitor horiz and vert synch rates in xorg.conf but I've also looked into that and kanotix xorg.conf has the correct synch rates and in fact, copying the details from kanotix xorg.conf actually fixed the problem in ubuntu. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 01:14 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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gnome-settings-daemon and gtk2-engines-gtk-qt are highly suspect to me. I had huge issues with gtk2-engines-gtk-qt and now would not install that for any reason again on any system I run. It massively destabized everything, to the point where I was about to give up on linux/kanotix completely. Luckily through mostly devil's help, and a lot of research, I finally managed to pinpoint the issue.
I would not touch anything that claims to do what either of these do, and would consider before anything else apt-get remove --purge both, then see if the situation improves at all. Turning them off is not good enough, totally uninstall them and then see if things improve. Remember, these things are messing with your kde, and they aren't doing it very well. Anything else you've installed that also does something like that would likewise be highly suspect to me.
I simply do not trust especially gtk2-engines-gtk-qt, it did not work, and corrupted my desktops completely while installed. Removing it solved the issue immediately. The symptoms were different from yours, but they basically made my desktop virtually unuseable for quite a few weeks until I figured it out.
Now I avoid this entire class of things, my gnome apps look ok, and that's good enough for me, since they are also totally stable as well now.
To me, this kind of problem you're having is a pretty major one, a core, system issue, and shouldn't be treated lightly, this is after all a failure of the os to function, that's quite different from other types of issues. It would be good to pinpoint this issue more precisely, if I were you, I'd run the manufacturor hard disk test utility, or one of the test utiliities found on something like the ultimate boot cd, to make absolutely certain you don't in fact have any hard disk issues.
I would also run memtest and let it loop through at least 10 times, that takes a few hours, to see if you have memory issues. Do you use mismatched memory, or lowend, cheap stuff? That's also not a good idea in general.
The thing that makes me wonder is that if this were a standard issue with reiserfs you'd think you'd see this problem report all the time, but if your system degraded in only 6 weeks, that's pretty serious. I use mine every day, it's 2005-4, it's on all day, no issues, no slowdowns, / root is on reiserfs, no user data is stored on root, and I use fstab to scan all my user data mounted filesystems on boot every x boots. Most of my data is in ext3 however, so I can read it from windows.
can you post the output of: df -h
I want to see if there are any obvious differences between your setup and my various setups, all of which give / between 5 and 12 gigs, depending on if it's a test or working /
No setup I've done on any box has had the issues you've had, and they are either sata or ide hard drives, various speeds, but all the same more or less in terms of not having the problem you are having. All had issues with gtk2-engines-gtk-qt by the way, it wasn't an isolated issue that was hard to pin down for me, I could reproduce it at will.
I would bet that this is a kde issue, but it's worth testing, when you see the slow down, logout of kde, and log into icewm, and open the same app that was slow in kde. See how it goes. That's how I found the problems I had, and figured out the solution.
Think about the various tweaking software you've installed in this class of things, anything to do with the interface at all, or customizing it. Try to remember if there are products you tend to just install out of habit, or because you like them, which aren't in the base install.
Again, the fact that you've run not one, but two version of this type of software, makes me very suspicous |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:12 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Since I use gnome sometimes as well as kde I can't remove gnome-settings-daemon but I have not had it running in kde for the past day and it's still slow as hell.
I have kde, gnome, xfce and fluxbox installed and have this sluggishness in all of them.
In the previous version kanotix I did install quite a few ubuntu packages which I thought may have caused the problems but I have no ubuntu packages installed now.
I have tried 2 different kanotix kernels and several different debian sid kernels with no improvement.
Regarding interface stuff, I have reverted to default themes and icons in all de's/wm's.
I've run memtest many times and found no problems, I don't have a manufacturers disk for my hard drive but I don't really see how that can be the problem since both kanotix versions I've had the problem with were installed on different disks and suse is now on the old partition and running very well thankyou.
Output of df -h
Code:
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda1 5.5G 3.2G 2.1G 60% /
sysfs 5.5G 3.2G 2.1G 60% /sys
tmpfs 5.5G 3.2G 2.1G 60% /dev/shm
devpts 5.5G 3.2G 2.1G 60% /dev/pts
tmpfs 5.5G 3.2G 2.1G 60% /dev
/dev/hda4 3.3G 1.6G 1.8G 48% /media/shared
I can no longer use kanotix as my primary os it's so bad, even the missus is now insisting on using suse cos kanotix is so slow.
I don't believe it's a hardware issue since all other os's are running fine and it's obviously not a problem with kanotix itself or everyone would be complaing so I can only imagine I have something installed that's causing it or some configuration issue. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:31 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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Yes, sounds like you're covering all the possibilities well.
From what you say here, you doing at least one thing I avoid completely:
you have different major windows managers installed. This has not struck me as a good idea, I just stick with the defaults, although I'd like to check out some of the smaller ones, like xfce etc. But I don't trust putting that much stuff on my system, it's completley unnecessary, and simply adds complexity and increases the odds of something not playing well with something else.
The fact that all desktop managers decay is bad, no doubt, but I have to suspect some conflict there.
I decided, from past failures with other linuxes, that when I started doing kanotix, I would not take any extra chances. I've definitely put the idea of installing gnome in that category. If I want to run gnome, then I'll use an install dedicated to gnome, probably debian etch for example, and I will only have gnome installed. Maybe one lightweight windows manager as well just in case, but definitely no e17, no kde, no large manager other than the main one.
Keeping things basic and uncluttered is working very well on all my installs, and makes debugging issues that do come up much easier overall. I also dont' use wireless or a printer by the way, for the same reasons. Result? no headaches, it all works every time I turn it on. No reinstalls, dist-upgrades run fine, very few surprises. Some, but not that many. Well, maybe I shouldn't say uncluttered, stuff is cluttered, but only in more superficial areas, not in the core stuff. The few places by the way where I have mixed too many things at the core are the places where that stuff isn't working. And works on a vanilla install.
And only install stuff in the debian repositories, don't install any other experimental stuff, for average users, I'd say it's fairly safe to say that if a package isnt' in apt, there's probably a good reason for that. Or good enough for me anyway. Nobody knows the skills of programmer x or y, and very few people know what their programs really do, including bugs etc. To me installing stuff from outside of debian repositories is roughly like installing unknown or random windows freeware - maybe it will do what it says, maybe it will destabilize your system, maybe it will install spyware, but you'll never know for sure. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:46 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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I must admit I do tend to install tons of stuff cos I like playing around with different apps.
I have suddenly thought of one thing though, I did have to restore my kanotix install from a backup some time ago after I accidentally deleted the partition it was on. I don't know whether or not it was around the time I started having problems or whether I ever restored my previous install from a backup (I have a nasty habit of deleting the wrong partitions) but it's something to take into account also.
I think I have no other choice but to do yet another clean install.
I'm really into kde now and since I already have gnome and xfce on ubuntu and gnome and fluxbox on slackware I think I'll just stick to using kde on kanotix and see how things go... |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:51 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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I had a similar and very maddening experience with a full restore using rdiff-backup, rdiff somehow managed to find a way to cram all my old data into a hidden compartment in the reiserfs, and then reinstalled over that. The result? Something very much like what you are experiencing. Total slow down, the partition was totally full even though it said it wasn't. Very odd behavior, definitely should not have been possible to have happen, but it did. Solution was to reformat, then restore, then it was all perfect. That's the last major issue I've had by the way. And the backup kept it from being anything more than discovering a very annoying bug in either reiserfs or rdiff-backup or the two together.
But even if this is a reiserfs bug, it seems to only show its face in this particular kind of circumstance.
So reformat partition, reinstall, avoid installing too much stuff for testing and playing, then see if kanotix slows down for you again. If your experience is like mine, this might be the last problem you'll see in kanotix for a long long time.
Lesson: reformat the partition before restoring a full system. And some others.
to me there's enough here to suggest that there may not be a real reiserfs issue, unless you found a way to trigger the same bug as I did, which is entirely likely by the way, it sounds very similar to what I saw, a total slowdown of the system until I deleted and reformatted and then restored. Definitely a significant bug, but I've never seen it again, so I stopped thinking about it. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 07:28 Uhr
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Team Member
Anmeldung: 06. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 3087
Wohnort: berlin
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well, reiserfs does fragment. but i cant really feel the slowing down.
h2 makes some really good points there, when it comes to kde & gnome installed on the same install as well as when it comes to using alien for rpm or even install from source. i dont use alien at all and install from source only if there is no other way. right now there is 2 tools installed from source, and things go fine. using checkinstall instead of makeinstall is a good idea here.
greetz
devil |
_________________
<<We are Xorg - resistance is futile - you will be axximilated>>
Host/Kernel/OS "devilsbox" running[2.6.19-rc1-git5-kanotix-1KANOTIX-2006-01-RC4 ]
CPU Info AMD Athlon 64 3000+ clocked at [ 803.744 MHz ]
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 16:22 Uhr
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Team Member
Anmeldung: 03. Mai 2005
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Wohnort: out there somewhere
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Very interesting indeed., I agree with this gtk2-engines-gtk-qt messing things up, I found this out after I think the first post on this forum with improving fonts or something like that, this actually makes things funky on my machine, I have tried "gtk2-engines-gtk-qt" twice on my system. they do not get along  Now all I use is either Freesans or Tahoma both in bold and my fonts look better than windows. I also run XFCE4 and Fluxbox with no problems. |
_________________
h2's d-u script
h2's rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 09.07.2006, 16:30 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 03. Mai 2005
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shame hat folgendes geschrieben::
I must admit I do tend to install tons of stuff cos I like playing around with different apps.
I have suddenly thought of one thing though, I did have to restore my kanotix install from a backup some time ago after I accidentally deleted the partition it was on. I don't know whether or not it was around the time I started having problems or whether I ever restored my previous install from a backup (I have a nasty habit of deleting the wrong partitions) but it's something to take into account also.
I think I have no other choice but to do yet another clean install.
I'm really into kde now and since I already have gnome and xfce on ubuntu and gnome and fluxbox on slackware I think I'll just stick to using kde on kanotix and see how things go...
You sound like me, installing things, I like trying new things , but have learned to do one at a time and test it for a good 20 minutes or longer, rebooting to to make sure nothing is funky, anything funky gets a apt-get remove --purge 
You should write down your partitions if you can't keep track (been there done that ) It really sucks losing things that you had on your drive for years ! |
_________________
h2's d-u script
h2's rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 11.08.2006, 19:40 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
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It's a shame cuz im gettin the same problem..  and its really buggin me
Was just installing some video editing program and then i restarted my computer, sound were gone (was able to repair that with alsaconf) and the harddisk icon that i usualy have on the desktop was gone, and everything was workin really sllloooww.. it almost took a minute to startup firefox.. :S xD. |
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What the deuce!?
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 11.08.2006, 20:21 Uhr
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Team Member
Anmeldung: 06. Mai 2005
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Wohnort: berlin
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coma,
what video editing? installed how?
greetz
devil |
_________________
<<We are Xorg - resistance is futile - you will be axximilated>>
Host/Kernel/OS "devilsbox" running[2.6.19-rc1-git5-kanotix-1KANOTIX-2006-01-RC4 ]
CPU Info AMD Athlon 64 3000+ clocked at [ 803.744 MHz ]
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 11.08.2006, 21:00 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 25. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 2133
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coma,
you've reached the point where you should refine your testing approach. I have three suggestions, and I am sure that other forum members will come up with more ideas:
1. Put a copy of the Kanotix iso file on your hard drive, boot off the cd with cheat codes "fromiso=KA*.iso unionfs" and apt-get install as you like.
2. Save a copy of your root partition to a network share with partimage before you do any major upgrade. partimage is on the cd and easy to use; you can even save Windows "C:" drive if it's on a FAT32 partition.
3. Create a second Kanotix installation for testing purposes so you always have your first installation to fall back on. No restrictive Windows license here, you can do as many installs as your hard drive can hold. |
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And I ain't got no worries 'cause I ain't in no hurry at all (Doobie Brothers, "Black Water").
Zuletzt bearbeitet von ockham23 am 11.08.2006, 21:13 Uhr, insgesamt ein Mal bearbeitet
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 11.08.2006, 21:04 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
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well first i tried jahshaka, and followed step by step some instructions in a different forum.
tar xvfz jahshaka1.9a8.tar.gz
./configure
make
but it gave a couple errors.. so then i tried Lives
with synaptic it installed it, but i couldnt find where to get it started, then i started lookin thru some files where the program was installed and looked for the executable file... i double cliked it hoping it would start and nothing happened... so then i thought, maybe i have to restart my computer.. and so i did, und flas! habs schon wieder vermasselt.. |
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What the deuce!?
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 11.08.2006, 23:48 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 1905
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| Littering your system with make install is a pretty bad idea on any dpkg/ rpm based system. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 12.08.2006, 01:33 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
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yea i did notice it was kind of a huge compilation work and alot of stuff moving around there... i'll have to keep myself down to simple installation apt and package managers..  |
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What the deuce!?
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