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Titel:
 Verfasst am: 12.08.2006, 19:09 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 08. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 300
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Better use checkinstall like so
To properly install a program built from source on a Debian/Kanotix system:
unpack the source tarball (.tar.gz) to a directory (preferably a dir in your home dir)
cd to the directory where the program's source was unpacked to
./configure (sets build parameters and checks for files needed to build the program and generates the makefile)
make (build the program's files)
checkinstall (creates a package rather than actually installing the compiled program)
to install the created package:
as root: dpkg -i "name-of checkinstall-created-package" (without the quotes and substituting the name of the deb)
NOTE: If I made an error in this, pls let me know  |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 12.08.2006, 21:16 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
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Thanks, ill keep that in mind  , by the way i started cleaning up some shit and actually i have recovered my old kanotix ( that was a big relief  ).. just took away some programs that were the problems.. everything back to normal
Ill take good care next time i try installing something.. |
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What the deuce!?
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 20.08.2006, 09:41 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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When I first started this thread I mentioned that kanotix had become sluggish after about six weeks and after a clean install it became sluggish again a couple of months after. There was a bit of discussion on various things that might be causing my problems and in my last post I mentioned that I was going to do yet another clean install, which I did the very next day.
Well that was about six weeks ago and guess what? Yep, it's starting to become sluggish once again.
It's not as bad as it was... yet, but it really is strange.
This time I've only installed stuff that I know I will use and haven't been experimenting with stuff.
I've kept to just kde, no other window managers or desktop environments.
No gtk2-engines-gtk-qt and no gnome-settings-daemon running.
I switched back to using reiserfs (the first install was reiserfs, the second I tried ext3).
Again, I did a completely clean install, from scratch, nothing kept from the previous install.
And once again, I have been running suse from around the time of the first kanotix install and that is running just as well as the day I installed it (not that I'm trying to make a suse is better point, by the way).
I still can't think what could be causing this but what really keeps bothering me is this 6 to 8 week cycle, what can it mean? |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 20.08.2006, 10:12 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 25. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 2133
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Hard to tell. Maybe you're running out of disk space, maybe there's a misconfiguration that's causing millions of hidden error messages that are written into a log file.
A fresh install of Easter-RC4 takes up about 2.5 gigs on your hard drive. Add to that the packages you installed and your data files. Compare the result with the drive space actually used by your system.
Code:
df -h
If the latter number is much bigger than you expected, you should go hunting for large log files. |
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And I ain't got no worries 'cause I ain't in no hurry at all (Doobie Brothers, "Black Water").
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 20.08.2006, 15:05 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Hmm, the biggest log file I can find is /var/log/messages at 2.2MB and the first entry in it is from of 17th July.
Disk space used is 2.9 gig. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 20.08.2006, 23:38 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 05. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 414
Wohnort: Auckland, New Zealand
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Just curious ... two questions:
Have you installed anything that wasn't from the debian sources (and example of which might be google earth etc)?
Also, I'd like to know, have you done a dist-upgrade since your new install? |
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Linux is evolution, not intelligent design - Linus Torvalds
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.08.2006, 01:56 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Only things I can remember installing that weren't from the debian sources was a kanotix kernel, spca5xx drivers for my webcam, which were installed a couple of days after the clean install and 3gpwiz (coverts video files to mobile phone format) which also involved compiling the amr enabled, svn version of ffmpeg.
I do dist-upgrades pretty regularly, at least twice a week. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.08.2006, 12:38 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 21. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 152
Wohnort: Ice and Snow
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Zitat:
do you by any chance have gtk2-engines-gtk-qt installed?
Thanks for the hint h2. I have noticed that my box was getting sluggish, and I was blaming myself for being a packrat. Got rid of gtk2-engines-gtk-qt and although it didn't seem to change the resource levels used, it sure did change the responses my box had toward my demands. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 21.08.2006, 18:42 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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| LRC, thanks for confirming that gtk2-engines-gtk-qt is still apparently problematic. I really wish people would stop recommending that to other people to be honest, the potential issues are simply not worth the headache. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 05:08 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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WOW! Only a day or so since I mentioned it had started becoming sluggish again, kanotix is has gotten much worse, to the point it was with the previous installs.
In that one day all I've done in browse the net, check my emails and tried some different themes and icon sets to see if they made any difference (they didn't and I'm back to what I was on before).
As a last resort, a couple of hours ago I installed prelink and preload to see if would at least help cut the tens of seconds start time for every app but if anything it's even slower now.
I've spent so much time trying to figure this problem out and I'm not getting anywhere, there doesn't seem to be any reason for it.
Whatever the problem is I don't think I'm going to work it out.
I've done lots of different checks and all other os's are working fine so I don't believe there is a hardware problem.
Obviously there's nothing wrong with kanotix itself or more people would be reporting this but since I'm only getting this problem with kanotix there has to be some conflict somewhere and I hate to say it but I reckon I have to finally give up on kanotix and look for another deb based distro.
What would people recommend as the next best deb distro to kanotix, preferably with kde as default?
I've used mepis before and didn't like it and I've used kde on ubuntu (not kubuntu itself) and there were many problems with it but I've read reports that kubuntu has improved a lot so it might be worth a look. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 07:00 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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Zitat:
spca5xx drivers for my webcam, which were installed a couple of days after the clean install and 3gpwiz (coverts video files to mobile phone format) which also involved compiling the amr enabled, svn version of ffmpeg.
The next obvious step seems to be to not install these and see what happens, since I think it's fairly likely that something you are doing is causing the issue. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 08:08 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Well I've already removed all traces of the spc5axx driver and the 3gpwiz, along with the ffmpeg I installed with it but no change.
With the previous installs that had the same problem I never installed any of the above so I doubt they are to blame anyway.
I agree it must be something I have done but I just can't imagine what, I've done so little with this install. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 09:13 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3
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Zitat:
Only things I can remember installing that weren't from the debian sources was a kanotix kernel, spca5xx drivers for my webcam, which were installed a couple of days after the clean install and 3gpwiz (coverts video files to mobile phone format) which also involved compiling the amr enabled, svn version of ffmpeg.
Installing anything by circumventing the Debian package management system is the beginning of the death of your system integrity, and that's true even more for kernel drivers or other more complex stuff. Debian is not a system where you install manually - just never do that. Your system is compromised above repair, and you should simply re-install to solve your problems.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
"An operating system must operate."
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 12:49 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 17
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| I'm also having the problem of running a sluggish Kanotix, but i think the main reason is if you install something by compiling it (make or make install) you're just kinda littering the system. I cleaned up a bit, now its not as sluggish as b4, but I still notice it a bit. |
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What the deuce!?
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 14:26 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 30. Nov 2005
Beiträge: 91
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shame: At an empasse you have to try anything. For what it's
worth here's my take on your problem.
This is my first quick look though this thread and two things
stand out for me.
1) In one of your earlier posts you said that Konsole took about
2 secs to start and 6/7 secs for the prompt to appear.
2) Your problem seems to occur whatever application you use.
Now I'm no Sherlock Holmes but the one of the things all GUI
applications have in common are fonts.
How responsive is the system in terminal mode? ie CTRL-ALT-F1
IMHO 2 sec for Konsole to start is normal especially after a
cold boot. But 6/7 secs for the prompt ain't normal. Could it
be that Konsole (and the other applications) are having trouble
finding the correct fonts? I know you've tried fix-fonts but I
remember there were some font problems during the changeover
to Xorg and after some gtk upgrades. Some sym links had to be
changed.
Have you tried
dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config
(my settings are native, always, no)
But, in truth, I smell a bad system link somewhere in your font setup.
Afterthought:
I suppose you did check the checksum after you downloaded
the Kanotix iso? |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 22.08.2006, 22:51 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Yea, I always check checksums on every distro I use.
You may have something there, I have never tried dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config on kanotix.
Incidentally, konsole is taking around 5 or 6 seconds to appear at the moment, plus the few seconds for the prompt to appear.
Though when I talk about everything starting slowly it's more the total time it takes to fully appear, for example, I start konqueror and it will take several seconds for the window frame to appear, then the toolbar will fill in bit by bit and then the icons will start appearing one by one. Although, now I think about it, text on toolbars, menubars and folders etc is always the very last thing to appear.
Just to give a better impression of this slowdown on my comp, I did some comparisons earlier today (yes I know I keep comparing to suse but that's just cos it's the only other distro I use with kde).
I switched to identical themes and icons on both (plastik and crystal svg) with identical configurations in every part of kde control centre, same wallpaper and same icons and amount of icons on kicker.
Kanotix:
Konqueror file manager 10 to 15 seconds
firefox 30 to 40 seconds
kpatience 15 to 20 seconds
thunderbird 30 to 40 seconds
gimp 30 to 60 seconds
suse 10.1
konqueror file manager 1 to 2 seconds
firefox 4 to 6 seconds
kpatience 2 to 3 seconds
thunderbird 3 to 5 seconds
gimp 5 to 7 seconds
I know there's a lot more to take into account but it's just to show how bad things are getting.
I can't try the fontconfig thing at the moment but as soon as I get the chance I'll let you know how I get on. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 00:09 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 23. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 174
Wohnort: Greece
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| Can't solve your problem shame, but why not try a debian sid netinstall. As close to kanotix you will get (or should that be the other way round?) |
_________________
Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 00:40 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Well I tried the fontconfig thing and, alas, still no improvement at all.
A net install of any kind is out of the question since my eciadsl based modem needs drivers installed before I can use it. I've recently tried a couple of new modems and niether would work on linux without patching and kernel rebuilds etc so still no good for a net install. I can't warrant getting a router as I have more important priorities for my cash at the mo.
Unless I can do a net install from within another distro, is this possible? I'm thinking it probably is but I've never looked into it...
It's been mentioned before that installing from source is going to damage the installation but if this is the case then maybe I should steer clear from debian related distros. There are just some things that I need/want that I can only install manually.
For example the spca5xx webcam drivers. The spca5xx modules in the repos don't work for me so I have to install them manually or it means having to boot up a different distro if I want to use webcam which I don't think is right.
If there's an app I want or a driver I need I should be able to install it on any distro I use.
So either way it looks like the end for kanotix for me.
It's a real shame because it was kanotix that really got me into linux in the first place after gentoo (boring) and knoppix (too many problems) nearly put me off altogether. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 02:48 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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Zitat:
If there's an app I want or a driver I need I should be able to install it on any distro I use.
So either way it looks like the end for kanotix for me.
shame, now I see why you have been having problems, this idea is just not correct. What you have to do when you pick a distro is make some fundamental ground rules that the distro must support. For me, it's being able to upgrade my system essentially continuously. That means apt based debian system.
In other words, you have to adapt yourselves to the strengths and requirements of the distro, the distro doesn't bend itself to yours, that's not realistic. So be clear with yourself about what you need to do, then find a system that does that for you.
This is like saying, as a firefox user, you should be able to install any extensions, in any combination, that you need, no matter how problematic they are, how poorly they integrate with the rest of the extensions and firefox itself, and then to get annoyed when firefox starts failing. Not the best strategy if you ask me, but if it's one you're set on following, then debian is, as you say, not the distro for you.
For you, it sounds like you should look at some thing like slackware, or if you have the patience, gentoo. Those distros are made for people with the requirements you posted, debian isn't, so you picked the wrong one if that's an essential requirement for you. If you pick your hardware to work with the system you use you'll have a lot fewer headaches too, by the way.
And for heaven's sake, spend the 5 or 10 pounds a used router costs, and throw away your modem, nothing is worse than having to use modems of any type to connect to the web, broadband or dialup. Free yourself from at least one headache, value your time the price of a few beer's at the local pub. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 03:20 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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Ok, firstly, I know nothing about routers at all, I enquired about a couple of 20 quid used ones and whether they would work ok on linux and the owners in both cases didn't know what linux was. I've looked in a few independent shops and the cheapest router I found was 65 quid which is too much at this time, I have read that any router will work on linux but when I was about to switch from dial-up I was told in at least three forum threads that any usb modem would work with linux which I've found was wrong.
Next, I'm still curious about this manual installing thing. I've seen a few posts in different threads where you have said this and I would like to know why it causes problems. I'm not disputing the fact, you clearly have more linux knowledge than me and I believe what you are saying I'd just like to understand why it causes these effects, it's something I've never even thought about, let alone looked into.
In the case of the spca5xx driver, it was only replacing files that were already there, though I don't know how much damage the amr enabled ffmpeg might have done but can one package really bring everything down?
Whith the exception of suse, as I want at least one stable os, I generally choose development distros, simply because things do break and the more they break, the more I learn about how things work. I don't particularly want to install anything from source and any app that isn't in the sources I will always search for ready made .deb before I go about installing manually. It's just sometimes it seems to be the only option.
I have tried gentoo on 3 different occasions and each time I always lose patience with all the compiling and fiddliness.
I've also tried slackware, mainly as a challenge to see if I could get everything set up correctly on a more complicated distro, which I did manage and soon got bored.
Maybe I should go somewhere in between like vector. I've always intended giving it a go... |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 04:19 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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debian system are a unified whole, a central database maintains a record of all installed packages, all their dependencies, etc, and handles all issues that arise.
when you introduce outside packages apt is not aware of these, and it may cause issues. I think it depends on the package, and of course, also if the distro maintainers use that package themselves frequently, which realistically tends to translate to better support for an outside package.
for example, if I download the zipped firefox alpha, unzip it, and run it from taht directory, using a new profile, that will never cause any significant issue because it is only a single directory, it just sits there. I run filezilla linux alpha 3 builds that way, for example, but they do not impact the rest of the system in anyway, they are transparent, and to remove them, I delete their directory, that's it, it's gone, except for a listing in the /home directory for its settings.
I think if you find yourself frequently needing to install from source, install extra kernel modules, etc, then you probably should not be using debian. That's my feeling anyway, except for vmware, which I probably should not have installed either in a perfect world, I don't use any non deb components, either kanotix or straight debian. And the system is rock solid, day in and day out, all the installs I've done are solid, no issues at all now. But I've seen how badly just one package can totally screw up this system, in my case it was that gtk-qt-engines junk for example that destabilized kde incredibly badly.
To me it's more about what you use the distro for, at some point, ideally, you use it for work etc, not just play, and at that point, you want the system to be rock solid, and it is for me anyway. I don't know if I know more about this stuff than you, I doubt it, but I do know that after playing with distro after distro for 5 + years, I got sick of crappy distros that kept breaking for reason x, y, or z, then started to understand what apt is all about, and why it's the way to go if you want a solid desktop / server, at least it is for me.
Then it comes down to learning what that apt system requires to work well, consistently, day in and day out. After that, it's just a matter or learning to use the 17,000+ plus tools that debian packages for us. I might make one exception, for very pragmatic purposes, but with some thought before hand, and with a backup too to fall back on just in case.
If you use a dsl modem, then dump it and go buy any used router, I see them at the fleamarket here for $5, that's what I payed for my current one when my old one died, and I really splurged some weeks ago and paid $8 for a wireless router, only b, not g, but that's fine. Routers have been around a long time, they all support pppoe connections, and they do those way better than any software I've ever used. If it's a dialup modem, forget it unless it's one of the very rare true non-winmodems. Linux always works better with normal networking cards, it's built around that, it runs 60% or so of the web after all, that's a lot of hardware, lots of different networking cards, but no modems to speak of. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 09:50 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3
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And 2 last tips:
1) Before you start your own experiments with building kernel drivers, please simply let us know! We cannot test every single piece of cheap hardware out there with every driver - but you can do that for us. So, if you find a driver working for your hardware, contact us, and we will try to build a clean kernel driver package for it (if the driver is open source and does not conflict with all other already included drivers). That's how Kanotix has become recognizing and working more hardware out of the box than every other distro, and you can help to even improve it.
2) Debian provides more than 17.000 ready made binary packages - that's much more than any other operating system, and of course more than any other Linux distribution. If an application or a tool is not included already, it is most likely that it is either simply crap, or serious stability/security reasons hold it back from being included. So, better go for alternatives instead of insisting on a single not included application. If you really think you found the single pearl in the ocean, again - let us know and we will try to package and test it. Actually that's what we do almost every day, so feel free to join the IRC and propose a package.
You will save yourself a lot of headaches and time, and getting much more productive when following these advises.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
"An operating system must operate."
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 10:45 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 207
Wohnort: England
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@ h2
Thanks for clearing that up, I probably should read more rather than bulldozing straight into things. One final question regarding manual installing, what about checkinstall and alien, do these also cause problems?
@ slam
In the past I have compiled a lot of things, often things I think I might want but never actually end up using.
This wasn't the case with my last install, the only things I needed/wanted that weren't in the repos was 3gpwiz, which I have found to be a really useful program which works perfectly for me everytime and has shown no buginess or instability, it might be worth looking into since I don't believe there are any other alternatives to this in the repos, the only downside is having to have a custom ffmpeg. I only found out about it after finding it in the suse repos and the version I installed on kanotix was from kde apps - **censored**
The other thing was of course the spca5xx driver. Now, my webcam has worked with amsn and with the built-in spca5xx kanotix kernel module it worked with kopete also but the debian kernel module wouldn't work and since, at the time, I couldn't use kanotix kernels I didn't see any other option.
Now I can use kanotix kernels I shouldn't need to build this driver again.
So basically, if 3gpwiz and the amr-enabled ffmpeg were added to the debian/kanotix repos I should never need to compile anything.
When I have time I may have to try one last clean install and just approach things differently. Thanks once again for all the patience, help and suggestions throughout this thread. |
_________________
sidux 32 & 64 | PCLinuxOS | PC-BSD
repository of shame - compiz fusion & beryl repo for debian Sid/Lenny/Etch | 32-bit | 64-bit
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 23.08.2006, 12:17 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3
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The application you mentioned makes usage of tools which are illegal to use in some countries, and it therefore cannot be included in Kanotix. However, there are Debian packages (and also alternatives) around - please ask in the IRC #kanotix.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
"An operating system must operate."
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