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Titel: Control Center Freezes w NVIDIA.
 Verfasst am: 18.10.2006, 12:49 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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I'm used to computers, but not to Linux. So I was happy when Kanotix 2006-01-RC4 first worked properly. Everything was fine, until I used
"install-nvidia-debian.sh -c"
to install a generic NVIDIA graphics card,
as this Web site instructed us to do. But using this line essentially broke my system. Immediately afterward, there were two major problems:
1) The Control Center would freeze each time I tried to open it. Because I read on this forum, that you guys swear by it, I used "RSEIUB" to try to shut down the computer, but then I needed to hold the power button down anyway.
2) The KDE password prompt would refuse my valid root password. However, the Konsole would still accept my root password, as would KPackage.
I looked at the xorg.conf file, but found nothing obviously wrong with it. Restoring the old, backed-up xorg.conf file got rid of the Control Center freezing, predictably left me without Direct Rendering again, but didn't solve the password problem. Yet, with the new xorg.conf file, Direct Rendering works, as demonstrated by "Crystal Space" animations rendering at full speed.
So I concluded that (1) the NVIDIA install had also installed some component requiring a higher KDE version, not via the xorg.conf file, and that (2) the Control Center freezing was a genuine driver problem.
But because my KPackage password prompt still worked, I Upgraded to the latest 'kdebase' version, of which a new version has been published. And KPackage installed 28 packages without any error messages.
Now the KDE password prompt works again, but the Control Center still freezes, even though the Upgrade also installed a new 'kcontrol' package.
Can anybody help me guess at what might be wrong?
And is there some way to fix it, without having to reinstall my whole Linux system? I only have a 10GB hard drive, with no Home Partition. And I don't see what preceding install might have caused this.
Dirk |
Zuletzt bearbeitet von dirkmitt am 22.10.2006, 19:50 Uhr, insgesamt 2 Male bearbeitet
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Titel: RE: Control Center Freezes w NVIDIA.
Verfasst am: 18.10.2006, 13:05 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
Beiträge: 16792
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Titel: RE: Control Center Freezes w NVIDIA.
Verfasst am: 18.10.2006, 13:27 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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What does the -c do? And will running it again without -c undo what that did?
Dirk |
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Titel: RE: Control Center Freezes w NVIDIA.
Verfasst am: 18.10.2006, 13:32 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
Beiträge: 16792
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| -c enables beta driver and composite. |
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Titel: RE: Control Center Freezes w NVIDIA.
Verfasst am: 18.10.2006, 13:53 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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I followed your advice, and ran
"install-nvidia-debian.sh"
in text-mode, with no -c command-line option. This has had no effect.
In fact, following that command and finishing, the script did not seem to download any new (non-beta) driver at all. The first time it reported connecting to the Internet. This time it just waited for a blip on my router.
I restarted the computer again for good measure.
But the Control Center still freezes.
(Edit) But I now have another plan. It looks like the Install Command without the '-c' option is too smart to reverse-install to the stable driver, because it did a reorg. This reorganization is evident as my prior need to upgrade to the latest KDE version, before my root pasword worked again.
So what I'll do is wait maybe a week, and then to try the Command *with* the '-c' option again. My guess is that the beta-driver gets updated more frequently, and without public notice, so that with any luck this Command will be able to upgrade (again.) Hopefully NVIDIA will have caught this bug then.
I'm glad that this isn't my main computer! And I also have too many other things to do right now, to keep playing with my Linux Box non-endlingly.
Dirk |
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Titel: Follow-Up: What about xorg v1.7.0-4 ?
Verfasst am: 19.10.2006, 23:07 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Q1: I'm noticing in my KPackage program, that an 'xorg' -Package Upgrade to v1.7.0-4 , from 1.7.0-1 , is being offered. This would seem to require only Upgrading 2 Packages on my computer, including 'type-handling' .
The problem with my Control Center freezing takes place before it can display the intro screen, which is of a different Type than the "Crystal Space" animations. Yet, there seems to be nothing preventing the display of normal Web pages using ?Iceweasel?
Does it sound likely that (1) the newest KDE version requires it and that (2) this may fix the freeze-up? Also, would this be a safe Upgrade? Do I need to quit the X-window (Ctrl-Alt-F1) to do it from the command-line? And if so, what would the command-line be again? Please recall, that I'm new to Linux. 
BTW, running the KDE Help Center also freezes the computer. Which seems to be the same kind of document as the intro screen of the Control Center.
(Ctrl-Alt-F1)
su
apt-get install xorg
(...Ctrl-Alt-Del) ?
A1: I've carried out this Upgrade without errors, but found it did not solve the problem. However, I've noticed now that both KDE Help and Control Center are KDE-Applications which have problems displaying their startup page. Thus it now seems more likely that I did damage to myself in just Upgrading 'kdebase' .
Q2: Could another KDE Component, such as 'libkmime2' be in need of Upgrading? Come on guys, give me some help here... There are a zillion (KDE) Packages, and one of you should be able to tell me which one is likely at fault. 
A2: Thinking it unwize just to Upgrade one library file or two, as it was out of desperation just to Upgrade 'kdebase' , I now Upgraded the whole 'kdepim' Package which also includes the 'libkmime2' Package that could have been reading the MIME-Types of startup-pages wrong, for *some* KDE-Applications. This Upgraded 35 Packages without error *messages* .
But it did not fix the problem. Thus I'm putting the idea aside again, that it might be a KDE problem, unless you guys could tell me where?
BTW my graphics card is a GeForce2 GTS/AGP/SSE (4x/2x)
Q3: I've finally figured out that using or omitting the "-c" option with
install-nvidia-debian.sh
installs the same driver, but puts a few additional "Option" lines into the xorg.conf file which activate its beta features. Also wondering if the old GeForce2 graphics card might be requiring the slower 2x AGP speed, I added
Option "AGPMode" "2"
in the Device Section of xorg.conf at one point, to try to permit this slower bus speed.
A3: While this did not seem to prevent the X-server, and the Direct Rendering, from loading, it also didn't solve the problem. So I took my own Option line back out again.
Dirk |
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Titel: Custom-Rolled Kernel Module doesn't solve problem.
Verfasst am: 22.10.2006, 02:04 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Since my graphics card is an old GeForce2 GTS/AGP/SSE , it requires that a legacy driver be used. Yet, the command
install-nvidia-debian.sh
already installed the appropriate legacy driver, the # 7184 .
But I seem to recall reading that such a legacy driver requires that a Kernel Module be compiled, which I wouldn't know how to write in source code. So what I did now, was to run the Installer from the NVIDIA Web site, that installs only the 7184 driver, precisely because it would attempt to install a Kernel Module itself. Which the Kanotix script can't do.
This installer from the NVIDIA Web site first tried to find a Kernel Module that would match it to 2.86 , but either the GeForce2 is so old, or the 2.86 Kernel so new, or both, that no binary was found at the FTP site. So the installer did what I hoped might get my system running again: It tried to compile and then link a Kernel Module on-the-fly.
This produced no error messages, but also did not resolve the problem. And also didn't seem to produce new problems (!) This same problem seems to produce no error messages in general.
Dirk |
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Titel: RE: Custom-Rolled Kernel Module doesn
Verfasst am: 22.10.2006, 02:05 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
Beiträge: 16792
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| The script does everything needed, just be sure you have a current kernel + current gcc installed. |
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Titel: RE: Custom-Rolled Kernel Module doesn
Verfasst am: 22.10.2006, 02:12 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Well on that note, is there a specific command which I can enter in xorg.conf , which will load this Kernel Module? Because the instructions seem to indicate, that I need to change xorg.conf by hand next.
Which I haven't done yet.
Also, the Installer seemed to complain briefly that some library folder was not at the expected location. That therefore it was saving its work to a different folder. I recall that more recent X-server configurations leave the X-server in newly-name folders, like X11R6. Doesn't the installer try to link the Kernel-Module to the X-server?
(Edit) I'm learning it to be typical of Linux, that an install-script first undertakes two tasks, then complains with warnings about long path-names I find unmemorizable that it encountered problems, and finally tells me that it installed the driver successfully, without mentioning if it also linked the Kernel Module successfully, as a result of those warnings.
Dirk |
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Titel: GeForce2 install 7184-driver overwrites a KDE file (...?)
Verfasst am: 22.10.2006, 23:18 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Trying to conclude from my end, why this malfunction has taken place, has admittedly driven me a bit bonkers in the last while. Especially since this form of inference has many branches of possible explanation that are finally inconsistent with the observations.
Installing the NVIDIA graphics cards essentially uses shell scripts, and programs, rather than using a package manager. This has inherent risks. But because my manual installation of the same driver reported that some files were being stored in crowded Linux-folders, because old-fashioned folders for the X-server were not found, I now suspect strongly that the actual graphics-card installation succeeded, but at the expense of overwriting maybe ?2? files in generic folders that actually belonged to the KDE already. All of which the Kanotix script also did, but which that script suppressed reporting.
What I mean is that by shear luck, some file(s) must have had the same name.
Upgrading KDE packages has failed to fix the remaining problems, beause the real package manager has these files checked off as present, presumably as still belonging to KDE, and as not requiring to be upgraded with the new packages. Indeed, if those files were again restored to their correct KDE-function, it might again compomise the graphics driver.
The moral of the story is, that a GeForce 2 GTS/AGP/SSE graphics card is too old, for such a high version of Linux. In my next install, I'll avoid trying to install it, and will therefore not be able to use the Linux Box in the way I had hoped. Unless I also buy an up-to-date graphics card with it, that doesn't use a legacy driver. Which I doubt I'll do.
Dirk |
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Titel: RE: GeForce2 install 7184-driver overwrites a KDE file (...?
Verfasst am: 23.10.2006, 01:23 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
Beiträge: 16792
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| You can not run the NVIDIA installer without proper option for X files. My script takes usuall care of that. |
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Titel: RE: GeForce2 install 7184-driver overwrites a KDE file (...?
Verfasst am: 23.10.2006, 13:11 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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I don't mean to offend anybody. This just happens to be a first, unpleasant real experience for me with Linux, which has been very different from the experience of most other people. I took System Software courses using Linux, but our Universities in Canada tend to shield their students from the real practical challenges of the 'real world.' So those courses didn't really teach *me* enough.
Yet, I'm happy with a Linux version that I'll be able to configure again. It's just that while I'm planning to reinstall Linux, I'll also wait for your stable version to come out, because why reinstall an unstable version. That's admittedly unstable over other issues than mine.
If it was true, that a naked shell script was as foolproof as you obviously try to make it, then the observations posted at the beginning of the thread couldn't happen: That my KDE-login-prompts fail with the correct root password, that the Control Center and Help Center Freeze. What I've posted seems like the only logical explanation for that, and I also suspect that very few people try to install an old GeForce2 card onto such a powerful Linux version. This is the other person who seems to have tried:
http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-21255-highlight-center.html
The user named "Moustache" reported a matching problem near the bottom of the page.
I do understand also, that your install script relies on the installer in turn, which NVIDIA publishes, and which you're not responsible for. Which your script sends the correct arguments to.
It would seem to be a statement for the stability of the KDE though, if it still works more or less, and if it works when the GC isn't in accelerated mode, with one of its files hijacked by another program.
Dirk |
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Titel: Proceeding to redefine how I'm going to use my Kanotix Box.
Verfasst am: 24.10.2006, 12:36 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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I'm actually quite sorry, that the installation of this graphics card has been so problematical or me, but also because it might make Kanotix look less stable than it actually is.
On this subject here, the facts could be made to look like a cause for the trouble, that I had previously installed the "Mesa" Driver set (a Package,) and that I subsequentl carried out my
install-nividia-kanotix.sh
without first removing Mesa. My first reason for doing so, was to keep the (OpenGL-) development libraries intact that come with Mesa. Yet, I found that the NVIDIA installer commented out the Load "dri" line that belonged to Mesa, and also changed the Driver from an "nv" to an "nvidia" all by itself. This is why the NVIDIA splash screen displayed.
But now I did the experiment, first of doing what everybody on the forum does routinely, a dist-upgrade. When that didn't work for me either, I reformatted my hard drive and completely reinstalled Kanotix 2006-01-RC4, and then performed the above instruction without having and previous installations on the hard drive.
You can find my posting about the results on this thread:
http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-21952.html
I guess what this means, is that next I'll either need to work with Kanotix, not as a graphics station, or obtain a more up-to-date graphics card, to go with this very powerful Linux-version.  My first idea was to put this Linux-computer together as scrap, but I'm also learning that Linux is more complex than I thought, and that it does require more attention.
Dirk |
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Titel: RE: Proceeding to redefine how I
Verfasst am: 24.10.2006, 12:43 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Dez 2003
Beiträge: 16792
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| You may not install nvidia-glx or other Debian packages when you want to use the script. |
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Titel: Please clarify...
Verfasst am: 30.10.2006, 02:42 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 18. Okt 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Well you see, the Mesa packages
libgl1-mesa-glx
and
libgl1-mesa-dri
are already part of the d-u. These include the runtime shared libraries. I had only added
libgl1-mesa-dev
which installs the development (static) libraries which game-authoring software needs to bind into executables we produce.
Furthermore, it's obviously futile to try to install
libgl1-nvidia-glx
because this one's for XFree86. And the ONLY versions for Xorg,
libgl1-nvidia-legacy
libgl1-nvidia-legacy-dev
are more futile for two reasons. First, they require a Kernel Module that can't be obtained without a compile-script, and secondly they're currently unsupported. They use the same ...7184 driver that caused my whole computer to freeze the last 5 times I tried to install it. What's the use of a legacy driver if you can't use it on a legacy graphics card?
Dirk |
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